Holiday Listening List

The Best Podcasts and Audiobooks We’ve Heard This Year

Looking for listening material that will blow your mind? Here are some favorites from the Out There community.

Extremely American | Podcast

Recommended by: Willow Belden, Out There host

This podcast is exceptional. Season 2, entitled “Onward Christian Soldiers,” is an inside look at a small town in Idaho, where a group of Christian nationalists are trying to end democracy as we know it. It’s utterly engrossing, with sharp, crisp narratives that will keep you on the edge of your seat.

Proxy | Podcast

Recommended by: Sheeba Joseph, Out There audience growth director

After a tumultuous year working in podcasting, Proxy has helped me "investigate" or process my feelings. The show started off just where I was at in my own personal job loss, and so Yowei's journey was timely for me. For anyone looking for a thoughtful way to process something, take a listen and support another local indie while you're at it! (You might recognize her voice from NPR's Invisibilia!)

Weight For It | Podcast

Recommended by: Willow Belden, Out There host

This show is a nuanced look at what it’s like to be fat. Each episode shares a deeply personal story about a different aspect of life — from dating, to fashion, to doctor’s visits. The podcast is refreshingly honest, and whatever your body size, you will be swept up in host Ronald Young Jr.’s intimate storytelling. Bonus: the story editor for the series, Sarah Dealy, produced an episode for Out There a few years back!

Crossings | Audiobook

Recommended by: Forrest Wood, Out There guest editor

I would highly recommend Ben Goldfarb’s new book Crossings for anyone interested in learning about road ecology, and how our human infrastructure is affecting the environments we occupy. I listened to it while driving across the country and boy howdy did it make me see highways in a new light.

How Wild | Podcast

Recommended by: Becky Jensen, Out There contributor and former advice columnist

As Marisa Ortega-Welch explores different capital "W" Wilderness Areas on foot, she wrestles with the concept of "wilderness" in America — what it means to different people, and how wilderness has changed over time. In her interviews with scientists, rangers and tribal members, she delves into the increasingly complex relationship between humans and nature.

My Name is Barbara | Audiobook

Recommended by: Maya Kroth, Out There contributor

I absolutely inhaled Barbra Streisand's memoir, the audiobook of which I checked out from the library because she narrates it herself. Not only was it great as an audiobook (with recordings of young Babs singing at her very first nightclub show in New York when she was like 19) but she also adds little unscripted commentaries on things she writes about in the book, vocal inflections, sarcasm, etc. It's gold. The book is like a thousand pages long and the audiobook about 48 hours long, but I got so addicted I finished it in like three days.

Dodger Blue Dream | Podcast

Recommended by: Matt Frassica, member of Hub & Spoke and producer of The Briny

Yes, this is a podcast about baseball. But it’s made by a master storyteller with an expert ear for great narrative, so even if you’re totally not into baseball (like me), it’s a lot of fun. Host Richard Hill Parks III was also responsible for the indie favorite Richard’s Famous Food Podcast, and his signature bonkers production style continues on this show.

Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted | Audiobook

Recommended by: Maria Ordovas-Montanes, former Out There intern

While listening to the audiobook, I realized how much crossover there was with Suleika Jaouad’s writing style and what I was learning with “writing for the ear” while crafting my own personal narrative for Out There. Suleika writes in such an immersive and relatable way — I truly felt like I was there and I was highly invested in getting to the next chapter. I specifically recommend the audiobook, which is read by the author.

Out There Wins Four Regional Awards

Out There has received four awards from the Society of Professional Journalists (SPJ).

Each year, SPJ’s Top of the Rockies Contest honors the best journalism in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and New Mexico.

This year, Out There was awarded:

• First place for Best Podcast*

• First place in mental health reporting, for the episode "Rekindling Hope"

• Third place in mental health reporting, for the episode "Ice Swimming"

• First place in sports features, for the episode "Learning to Swim"

This is the largest number of awards we’ve received from SPJ in a single year.

Since its inception in 2015, Out There has received 20 national, regional, and international awards.

Thank you to SPJ, the Out There team, the freelancers we collaborate with, and you, our listeners. It truly takes a village.

*The “Best Podcast” award was based on submission of the following episodes: "Moonlight," "Living Without Hope," and "Closing the Gender Gap."

Happy Giving Tuesday!

We share the belief that introspective outdoor stories can soothe the soul and inspire us to be our best selves.

But quality storytelling is expensive.

• Our storytellers spend months crafting each narrative, and we work hard to compensate them fairly.

• We pride ourselves on beautiful sound design, and music isn’t free.

• We pour our hearts into mentoring interns, and we make sure they get paid.

Out There is an independent podcast, so we don’t have financial backing from a radio station or network. Last year, 66% of our revenue came from listeners.

Our goal is to raise $9,500 by Dec. 31 to help pay for our next season.

Please consider joining me in investing in the future of Out There.

Make a sustaining gift

Support Out There with a monthly contribution on Patreon (or increase your pledge, if you’re already a patron).

Support Out There today

Make a gift on PayPal or Venmo, or mail a check (payable to Out There) to PO Box 2331, Laramie, WY 82073.

Make a tax-deductible donation

As a member of Hub & Spoke, we are able to accept tax-deductible donations! Hub & Spoke is a collective of idea-driven independent podcasts operating under a fiscal sponsorship agreement with the Arts & Business Council of Greater Boston, Inc. a 501 (c) 3 non-profit tax-exempt organization.

Internship Opportunity!

Hone your audio storytelling skills at Out There Podcast

“I found a job pretty much right away, after working for [Out There], and the skills that I gained from that internship were what set me apart from other applicants.”

— Aja Simpson, former Out There intern

Overview

This internship is an opportunity for an emerging audio producer to receive one-on-one mentorship in the art of audio storytelling.

You’ll gain hands-on experience developing long-form narratives, and you’ll work closely with Out There host Willow Belden to learn about all aspects of producing an award-winning podcast.

Past interns have walked away with highly marketable skills, impressive additions to their portfolios, and the confidence to thrive in a competitive industry. Nearly all have landed full-time audio and/or journalism jobs after completing our internship.

About Out There

Out There is an award-winning podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors. Each episode tells a deeply personal, sound-rich narrative, using nature as a lens to understand our own humanity. 

What do we mean by “outdoors”? Anything outside your door! The outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised, the color of your skin or anything else about you. We celebrate the myriad ways in which humans engage with nature, and center voices that are often sidelined in mainstream media.

Here are some examples of Out There stories:

• “Indoor Kid” explores what happens when the person you want to be doesn’t mesh with the person you are

• “Moonlight” is about getting lost — both literally and figuratively — and about the importance of family stories in helping us find our way

• “America’s Best Idea?” examines how national parks could help us right historical wrongs

Audio mix for an Out There episode

About the Internship

“My experience working with Willow ... gave me so much confidence, during a time when the job market was really, really competitive.”

— Anmargaret Warner, former Out There intern

We want you to be doing work you’re excited about, so we’ll tailor the internship to you, based on your goals, interests and skills.

You can expect to gain experience in:

• Story development — evaluating pitches, honing story ideas, prepping for interviews

• Script writing and editing — developing narrative arcs, writing for the ear, refining storylines

• Audio production — recording, cutting tape, doing sound design (this would require basic knowledge of audio editing software, such as Adobe Audition, though we will work with you to sharpen your skills)

• Producing your own story — if you pitch us a story that’s a good fit for Out There, we’ll work with you to develop it. So far, all of our past interns have produced stories that have aired on the show. Some have even won awards!

If there’s something you could bring to the table that’s not listed above, but that you’re excited to work on, please let us know! We love experimenting with new ideas.

scripts for Out There go through multiple rounds of edits before production begins (Photo by Willow Belden)

Time Commitment

The internship runs from October 2023 - May 2024. Exact dates are flexible, but we'd like for you to learn from the full production process, from story development to season launch.

We ask that you be ready to devote 6 - 8 hours per week to the internship. You’ll have weekly meetings with Willow via phone or video chat; outside of that, you can set your own schedule.

What You’ll Get

You will receive a $1,000 stipend for the internship, paid in four installments.

We are an independent show on a shoestring budget, and we can’t pay as much as we would like. But we work hard to make the experience valuable for you. It’s important to us that you receive more from the experience (in terms of learning, skills, and published works for your portfolio) than we get from you in labor. We see you as an integral part of the team, and look forward to helping you put your mark on the show.

About You

Diversity is key to our success as a podcast. Our mission is to amplify voices that are often sidelined in outdoor media and explore the myriad ways in which humans engage with — and learn from — nature.

To succeed in that mission, our team needs to encompass a wide array of perspectives and backgrounds. We work hard to make Out There an environment in which all perspectives are heard and valued, and no matter who you are, we promise to support you. 

We also recognize that the most talented storytellers sometimes come from nontraditional backgrounds. You don’t need a degree in journalism or a portfolio of audio stories to be on our team (although those are great too). We have accepted interns in the past who lacked formal training as writers/producers, but who have made outstanding contributions to the show nonetheless.

What matters is that you have a passion for storytelling, an insatiable curiosity, a thirst for excellence, and a desire to learn and grow.

To Apply

Send a resume and cover letter to willow[at]outtherepodcast[dot]com by Sept. 15, 2023, with “Internship Application” in the subject line.

Please make sure to highlight relevant experience/skills, and tell us how you would help us fulfill our mission of amplifying underrepresented voices on Out There. If you’ve done previous audio work, please provide a link to a story that showcases your skills.

Please note: The Out There team will be out of office from July 15 - Sept. 4, 2023. If you have questions about the internship, please email us, and we’ll get back to you after we return.

Out There wins regional awards

Out There received two awards in the Society of Professional Journalist’s “Top of the Rockies” contest on April 22.

We received third place for best podcast, and our episode “America’s Best Idea?” took third place for best solutions journalism.

The episodes submitted for the “best podcast” award were: “Indoor Kid” by Sarah Dealy, “America’s Best Idea?” by Sam Baker, and “Measuring Up” by Christine Reed.

Since its inception in 2015, Out There has received more than a dozen national, regional, and international awards.

It's an honor to be recognized by audio industry professionals. And it's a delight to be making the show for all of you, our listeners.

Happy Holidays!

2022 has been busy at Out There! Here’s a recap.

In 2022, we…

• found a new home at Hub & Spoke

• produced our first themed season (in which 2/3 of the stories centered QTBIPOC perspectives)

• received SEVEN awards

• and developed a new podcast for kids

In 2023, we plan to…

• bring you a new season of OUT THERE

• launch ONCE UPON A MEADOW, our new kids’ show

• keep doing our part to make the world a better place

Thank you for believing in us!

Photos courtesy of: Willow Belden, Jessica Heeg, Sheeba Joseph, Paris McMillian, Christine Reed, Angie Chatman, Ziyi Xu, and Thomas Lee

Hub & Spoke illustration by Magdalena Metrycka

Once Upon a Meadow cover art by Gracie Canaan

Out There episode wins Gotham + Variety award

Out There’s episode “Indoor Kid” was honored at the inaugural Gotham + Variety Audio Awards in New York on Oct. 14.

The awards, presented by Wondery, celebrate bold voices and innovations in audio storytelling.

Sarah Dealy (Center, with microphone) produced the award-winning episode “Indoor Kid” for Out There (Photo courtesy Sarah Dealy)

Sarah Dealy, who produced the award-winning story for Out There, was one of 10 individuals recognized at the event. Her story traces her experience in a wilderness therapy program, exploring what happens when the person you want to be doesn’t mesh with the person you are.

Since its inception in 2015, Out There has received more than a dozen national, regional, and international awards.

It's an honor to be recognized by leading audio industry professionals. And it's a delight to be making the show for all of you, our listeners.

Calling all audio producers!

We’re taking pitches for our upcoming season, and we’d love to hear from you.

The season theme is “Secrets of the Earth.” We’re looking for stories from under-represented voices that fit that theme.

Photo by Shirish Suwal on Unsplash

 For example:

• Are you a scientist who’s unlocked a mystery about the natural world by tapping into the indigenous wisdom of your ancestors? How did that change you?

• Are you a person who thought your family members had always been city folk, but later learned of their strong connection to nature in your country of origin not many generations back? Why was that significant for you?

• Did you learn to swim as an adult? How did that experience — and/or the water itself — change you? 

• Has a disability or health challenge made it more challenging to explore the wilderness than people with able-bodied privilege? What have you learned about yourself as a result? 

• Do you forage or grow your own food? How has that connected you to a truth from your generational past or given you new insight into your cultural roots?

These are just a few ideas to get the creative juices flowing; we’re eager to hear about your own personal journeys, emotions and experiences.

About us

Out There is an award-winning podcast that explores big questions through intimate outdoor stories. 

What do we mean by “outdoors”? Anything outside your door!

We believe the outdoors is for all, regardless of where you were raised, the color of your skin, or anything else about you.

If you've stepped outside for any reason, you have a connection to nature. We seek to celebrate those connections, amplify voices that are often sidelined in outdoor media, and explore the myriad ways in which humans engage with — and learn from — nature. 

To succeed in that mission, the stories we air, and the people who tell them, need to encompass a wide array of perspectives and backgrounds. Diversity is key to our success, and we work hard to make Out There an environment in which all perspectives are heard and valued. 

With that in mind, we are prioritizing stories that reflect outdoor experiences of QTBIPOC and people with disabilities.

We are particularly interested in “happens to be” stories: stories that feature people who happen to belong to one of these communities, but where the story is not explicitly or solely about their identity, marginalization, or victimization. 

Here are some examples of past Out There stories:

• “In the Name of Fairness” is an award-winning story about an intersex athlete who learns that “fairness” in sports is more complicated than you might think

• “Indoor Kid” explores what happens when the person you want to be doesn’t mesh with the person you are

• In “Pamper Your Brain,” an art student from China shares how she rekindled her creative energy through stargazing

How to pitch

We’re looking for idea-driven narrative stories. Your piece should:

• relate to the theme “Secrets of the Earth”

• be deeply personal

• have a clear narrative arc, with a compelling plot, vivid scenes, and surprising moments of introspection

• explore a broader question (eg. your story might be about fishing, but on a deeper level, maybe it’s about how we move on after a big loss)

Photo by Andre Hunter on Unsplash

The piece needs to have a connection to the outdoors, but it doesn’t have to be about wilderness adventures or feats of strength.

Some of our best stories involve the urban outdoors.

Length:

The raw story should be about 15 minutes (the finished piece will end up being longer, once we incorporate sound design).

If you’re interested in doing a piece…

• Email Willow Belden (willow[at]outtherepodcast.com), with "Out There Pitch" in the subject line.

• Please make sure your pitch includes:

  1. what your story is about — i.e. the basic storyline, character(s), stakes, obstacles, outcome

  2. the big idea/question the piece will explore

  3. how the story ties into the theme “secrets of the earth”

  4. the overall takeaway; and

  5. how your story amplifies under-represented voices/perspectives

• In addition, please include some info about yourself, point us to an example or two of your work, and if you’re on social media, let us know where we can find you. 

PITCH DEADLINE: Nov. 10, 2022

Photo by Robinson Recalde on Unsplash

Pay:

$500-$1,000, depending on the complexity of the story and whether you’re doing your own sound design.

We recognize that this amount is modest. We strongly believe storytellers deserve to be compensated fairly, and we REALLY wish we could pay more. But we are an independent show on a shoestring budget, and we have to work with what we’ve got.

While we don’t have big coffers, we are prioritizing paying as much as we possibly can, and we are working hard to grow the show so that we can offer higher rates in the future. 

In addition, it’s important to us that the experience is valuable to you as a storyteller and that it helps further your career goals. Our host, Willow Belden, is a fun, supportive editor, and she looks forward to helping you make your story the best it can be. Several newbie storytellers we’ve worked with have won major awards for the stories they produced for Out There, and we would love for yours to be next in line.

Calling all artists!

Out There is developing a new podcast for kids, and we’re looking for a logo designer and illustrator to create artwork for the series.

If you or someone you know might be interested, we’d love to hear from you.

About the podcast

Geared toward children ages 4-9, the show features fictional stories interwoven with original music. (Think Prokoviev’s Peter and the Wolf, but set in the modern-day US). The characters are a community of wild animals and plants (the trees can talk too!) who live in a meadow and work together to solve problems so they can live in community, despite their differences.

The stories are meant to engage young people with big questions that matter in their lives, exploring themes of environmental and social justice. 

About you

We are looking for someone (or a couple of someones) to design a catchy logo for the show and create a fun illustration for each episode. We also hope to create coloring pages, connect-the-dots, etc. based on some of the illustrations.

We’d like to work with an artist whose work centers QTBIPOC experiences, to ensure that each child sees themselves reflected in our stories — no matter their gender identity, skin color, or anything else about them.

Compensation

This is a freelance contract gig. We can offer $400 for a logo and $200 per illustration. 

We recognize that this amount is modest. We are a tiny team on a shoestring budget, and we’re doing the best we can with very limited funding. At this point, the project is essentially a labor of love for everyone involved. 

We sincerely hope to be able to pay competitive wages for future seasons of the show (and wonderful artwork is key to there being future seasons).

For now, we can promise to be a fun, collaborative team with a keen interest in seeing you grow and succeed as an artist. And you’ll get to put your mark on an exciting new project!

Timeline

• We’d like to get moving on the artwork quickly so we can incorporate it into our press kit and marketing materials. We’re hoping to have a logo done by mid-October and illustrations in November.

• Tentative launch date: February 2023

• The season will include nine episodes, likely released weekly

• Assuming the show gains traction and we are able to fund future seasons, we would love to continue working with you down the road (and pay you more)!

If you’re interested…

Please email us by Sept. 20 at willow[at]outtherepodcast[dot]com. Tell us about yourself, and point us to some of your work.

If you’d like to listen to one of our stories, let us know; we’d be happy to send you a link.

Out There wins national awards

Out There host willow Belden with the podcast’s awards from PMJA (Photo by Willow Belden)

Out There has received two national awards from the Public Media Journalists Association, or PMJA.

The episode entitled “The Ultimate Outdoorswoman” by Victoria Marin and Sheeba Joseph won second place for best narrative podcast, and the episode “Why Do We Stay?” by Anmargaret Warner took second place for best student-produced narrative podcast episode.

This is the sixth year Out There has been recognized by PMJA (formerly known as PRNDI), and it’s the first time the podcast has received two national awards in one year.

Since its inception in 2015, Out There has also received five awards from the Rocky Mountain chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists.

It's an honor to be recognized by the most respected journalists in our field. And as always, it's a delight to be making the show for all of you, our listeners.

Out There seeks marketing coordinator for kids' podcast

Out There is launching a new podcast series for children, and we’re looking for an enthusiastic person to join our team on a freelance basis to help us reach our target audience.

About the podcast

Geared toward children ages 4-9, the show will feature fictional stories interwoven with original music. (Think Prokoviev’s Peter and the Wolf, but set in the modern-day US). The characters are a community of wild animals and plants (the trees can talk too!) who live in a meadow and must find ways of solving problems so they can live in community, despite their differences.

The stories are meant to engage young people with big questions that matter in their lives, exploring themes of environmental and social justice. 

The production team consists of award-winning podcast producer Willow Belden; internationally acclaimed composer Nadav Amir-Himmel; writer and University of Wyoming professor of natural sciences and humanities Jeff Lockwood; and three story consultants from QTBIPOC communities.

The program will be released under the umbrella of Out There, an award-winning podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.

About you

We are looking for a marketing coordinator who can help our new show make a big splash. 

Our goal is to build up a robust audience of children, educators, and parents/caregivers from diverse backgrounds. We are working hard to ensure that each child sees themselves reflected in our stories — no matter their gender identity, skin color, or anything else about them — and it is important for us to reach kids from QTBIPOC communities and other populations that are often sidelined in mainstream media.

As such, our ideal candidate will have:

• strong connections with educators/parents/caregivers of children ages 4-9

• strong connections in QTBIPOC communities 

  • Bonus points if you have connections with outdoor kids’ groups/nonprofits, homeschool societies/online learning communities, BIPOC online learning communities, Teach for America, etc.

• viable ideas for building a robust audience for a new children’s podcast

• 1-2 years experience in marketing or other relevant field

  • Bonus points if you have experience marketing children’s products/services/media

• excellent communication and organizational skills

• a proactive, enthusiastic personality

• a passion for environmental and social justice

The Out There team is here to guide and support you in this project, so it’s ok if you’re not already a pro in podcast-specific marketing. Your connections are more important than your audio knowledge.

Responsibilities

• Work with our existing team, including Out There’s audience growth director, to create a marketing plan for the new children’s series

• Execute marketing initiatives outlined in said plan

  • Marketing initiatives could include:

    • Cross-promotions on other podcasts

    • Applying to be featured on podcast discovery platforms

    • PR

    • Social media marketing

    • Listener referral programs

    • SEO

    • Anything else you’re excited to try — we’re all ears!

This is a new show and a new role, so you’ll have a lot of latitude to make the job your own. We want you to be creative, and we will support you in every way we can!

Requirements for the role

• Must be based in the United States.

Compensation

• This is a freelance contract position.

• We can offer a flat fee of $2,000.

  • We recognize that this amount is modest. We are an independent production on a shoestring budget, and we are doing the best we can with very limited funding. At this point, the project is essentially a labor of love for everyone involved. We sincerely hope to be able to pay everyone competitive wages in future seasons of the show. And a successful marketing campaign is the key to there being future seasons!  For now, we’d love to strategize with you about doing the most we can with the available budget.

• Beyond financial compensation, you will join a fun, collaborative, supportive team with a keen interest in seeing you grow and succeed in this role. And you’ll get to help shape the future of an exciting new program!

Timeline

• Tentative launch date: September 2022

• The season will include six episodes plus a trailer, likely released weekly.

• We’d love to have you start ASAP and work with us through the end of this first season (probably late October/early November). Obviously this is a very part-time gig, and we are happy to work with your schedule.

• Assuming the show gains traction and we are able to fund future seasons, we would love to continue working with you down the road (and pay you more)!

To apply

Please send a resume and cover letter highlighting relevant experience and a few creative, compelling ideas for marketing our program to willow [at] outtherepodcast.com by June 5, 2022. Please put “Marketing Coordinator” in the subject line.

If you’d like to listen to a rough mix of one of our stories before applying, please email willow [at] outtherepodcast.com.

Learning Nature Anew

BY CARA SCHAEFER

This season, Out There has been exploring the theme “Things I Thought I Knew.” While the natural world is a constant presence, our relationship to it often shifts as we move through different seasons of our lives. Lessons we think we’ve already learned, will be forgotten, and discovered anew. From staying present to being true to yourself, our profile guests from throughout this season offer their perspective. 

VIRGINIA ROSE: I am reminded every time I go out of a mystery. Every morning as you're getting ready to go out the door birding, you think you know what you're going to see. But every single time you will see something that you had no expectation of, if you're out and you're paying attention. Or, as Mary Oliver says, “Pay attention. Be astonished. Tell about it.” 

Virginia is an avid birder and founder of the non-profit Birdability. You can read her profile here.

SAMARA ALMONTE: When I get reached out to by more mainstream platforms, I often feel like I need to mold myself to the mainstream idea of “outdoorsy.” Like having the right gear, going on all these different hikes and adventures, and really becoming this sort of squeaky-clean idea of almost like an outdoor influencer. I think what I often remember about my work is that it's not always going to fit those boxes, because the work I want to do isn't tailored to that. The work I want to do is storytelling. 

When I get opportunities to be on platforms that are more mainstream, I hope I can continue having conversations that are about indigeneity, and healing, and our green roots. I'm also just relearning how to show up in these mainstream spaces, that want a specific image, still myself. And when to say no if it feels like it's not going to be my authentic self being represented. Because right now everyone wants a woman of color in their environmental panel or environmental space, but we have to think about, ‘Can I be my authentic self in those spaces?’

Samara is a multimedia storyteller and host of the podcast Raíces Verdes. You can read her profile here.

ANNIE VARNOT: When I'm out in nature, it's my way of really grounding myself. That interconnectedness brings me joy. I feel immense love for myself, the environment, for living, for just being. When I'm not in it, I lose sight of that. 

For me, I'm a real doer. Growing up, my parents were extremely resourceful and hard working. But your purpose and your value was from production — labor and doing. I'm all caught up in this: I have to do, do, do. And when I'm out in nature, it takes me a while to let go of that, and surrender.

Annie is an artist and long-distance hiker. You can read her profile here.

ANASTASIA ALLISON: I'm always having to relearn to stay in the present moment. This is sort of like the ultimate life practice. There are times when I'm hiking, or when I'm outside, and yes, I might be physically there, but my mind is somewhere else. My mind is thinking about the email I need to send, or replaying some conversation in my head, or worrying about something that's coming up, or thinking about something that's in the past.

Nature wants us to be there. Nature wants us to notice the leaves, or notice the raindrops dripping off of the trees, or notice the bird flying by. Nature is just this endless, infinite source of miracles that we often miss when we aren't truly present. If we can simply be there, and feel as though we're a part of it, that really enhances our connection, not only to nature and each other, but to ourselves.

Anastasia is an entrepreneur, musician, and dancer. You can read her profile here.

DIVYA ANATHARAMAN: Living in the city, no matter how much we think we're removed from nature, we are still part of it. There's not really any escaping from being a part of this bigger story that nature has.

Divya is a taxidermist based in New York City. You can read their profile here.

PAULINA DAO: I think one thing I'm always having to relearn is redefining what “outdoorsy” means. And keeping in mind that as long as I'm outside, I'm outside. I think we all get really caught up in doing big hikes, climbing really hard, doing things that people think are really cool. And for me, I have a hard time trying to not compare my accomplishments, or lack of accomplishments, to others. And just really remembering that I'm going outside for myself, and not for the Internet, and not for anybody else. 

Paulina is a photographer and outdoor adventurer. You can read her profile here.

What’s something that YOU are always having to relearn when it comes to your connection with nature?  Let us know in the comments below!

Also, be sure to check out the latest season of Out There online, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Spotlight on Paulina Dao

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Can you experience nature fully AND take some nice photos? We spoke with photographer Paulina Dao about outdoor adventure photography, rafting the Grand Canyon, and balancing great shots with even better experiences. 

Photos courtesy of Paulina Dao.

OUT THERE: How did you get into doing outdoor adventure photography? 

PAULINA DAO: I started getting into outdoor adventure photography when I started my blog littlegrunts.com. I had just graduated from college, and I started doing all these outdoor adventures. I didn't really have friends who did stuff like that at the time, so the blog was my way of sharing about these things. I got into photography as a supplement to the blogging, because when you talk about stuff, nobody ever wants to see just a wall of text. People want to see photos, what stuff looks like. I also was doing a lot of gear reviews for people who are small — like five feet tall like me — and being able to take photos of what stuff looks like on me was a natural step. Then I realized that capturing images, and making images, is much more fun than having to sit down and crank out however many words I need to.

OT: Is there a photo you've taken that you are especially proud of? If so, what's the story behind that?

PD: There is one that I really love from the Sierra High Route in 2020. My partner and I had been hiking basically for an entire week through a bunch of thunderstorms that started really early in the day, and as we were going up over this pass trying to beat the storm, there was this magical, double rainbow behind the peaks. It was just so stunning.

I feel like it also sums up the whole Sierra High Route for me. Lots of struggles, but also very pretty. I had a lot of feelings, because I was a very unhappy hiker. For me, a good photo is not only the subject, but also the emotions and feelings at the time of me making that image. Some of my favorite photos are me just capturing people having fun, and showcasing the joy of what it means to be outside — whether we're climbing, or just snacking, hanging out, and laughing. I hope that my photography really captures the essence of people going outside and being their authentic selves, and just having a blast.

OT: What tips do you have for people looking to better capture their own outdoor adventures through photography?

PD: Learning how to use a camera is really important. Understanding how your ISO, how your aperture and shutter speed work together to create the image that you want is more important than having fancy camera gear. The best camera that you have is the camera that you have with you. I think people are always like, ‘Oh, I need to have a really expensive and nice camera with interchangeable lenses and stuff.’ But phones are a really incredible and powerful tool. And if you download the Adobe Lightroom app you can shoot in RAW. I think Apple has finally made it so you can shoot in RAW without downloading any apps. Once you master those three things, it opens up doors for you.

OT: You recently did a month-long Grand Canyon rafting trip. How did you feel going into that?

PD: I did not want to go.

OT: Really! Why?

PD: December is typically climbing season for me. I love going down to Bishop and hanging out there for a bit and climbing. Climbing has really been a roller coaster for me since the pandemic, and I was starting to find my groove, feel like I was getting back into the swing of things. Right before the trip, I felt the strongest I've been in a really long time. I was making a lot of progress on the things that I was climbing, and leaving for a month felt like it was a setback.

It was one of those trips where my partner got the permit. I’m not a river person. It was something I didn’t really want to do. I'm also a huge homebody. I love being gone for weekends, or like a week or two at a time, and then coming home and hanging out with my cat, doing yard work, just being a sloth. Being gone for a month was something that was definitely like, ‘Ooh, I'm not so sure about this.’ But in the back of my mind, I knew deep down that this is a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and that I will have fun no matter what. 

OT: Did you encounter anything along the river that surprised you? 

PD: I was just really pleasantly surprised by how much I was enjoying the trip. Being down there was really magical. It was also surprising how well our group of 16 people got along. I think about half the group were complete internet strangers and didn't know anybody going on the trip. And that's always such a shot in the dark with how people will deal with being with other people for 29 days straight. And there was very little tension. 

OT: What was the highlight, and the lowlight, of the trip for you? 

PD: I think the best parts were when the entire group came together to get things done. We had one day — our first day of huge rapids — where we went through three big rapids. When we got to camp that evening, somebody brought out a speaker. Alcohol came out, music was playing, and we were all just hanging out having this massive, impromptu dance party and it was just so fun. Everyone was on the same wavelength, costumes were out. Whenever I look back on the trip, I look back on that memory. 

Christmas on the river was really special too. We did a Secret Santa, and we went around the circle opening gifts and guessing who had us. New Year's Eve also comes to mind. It was a perfectly beautiful and sunny day. We were planning on setting up this giant dome tent and hanging out. Then all of a sudden at 9:30 pm, out of nowhere, this storm comes in: tents are blowing away, the kitchen is blowing over. And just watching everyone stop what they were doing to save tents and stake things down, while still having a good time and laughing, and singing, and joking about the rain, was pretty special. 

Lowlight for me, I had a really hard time on the trip personally. I really just got in my head with a bunch of things. And having a partner who's a trip leader, who has also never done a trip like this before, was a little bit stressful. I don't think he anticipated how stressful it would be, and I didn’t either. I thought I could just show up, then he would help me do everything. There were definitely points on the trip where we were bickering and arguing. People see you arguing, because you're in such a small space, and I just ended up getting really down on myself. And being like, ‘Why am I not having a good time like everybody else?’ Or, ‘I think everybody hates me because I'm ruining the trip.’ And it's kind of hard to take yourself out once you get into that headspace.

OT: How do you stay engaged in your outdoor activities while still taking photos? 

PD: It's a hard balance for me sometimes, especially when I have work that I need to do. If I'm working with other people, I always try to make it fast and communicate, “Hey, this is what I'm looking for. This is what I need.” And once I'm done, the camera goes away unless people want me to take photos of them. And also being intentional with having trips where I don't take my camera out. Because I know after a while, I definitely get tired of just making content. Setting aside time where the camera doesn't come out is helpful for keeping things fresh.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Paulina on Instagram or at her website.

Out There wins ‘Best Podcast’ award

Out There has received three awards from the Society of Professional Journalists, or SPJ.

Each year, the Rocky Mountain chapter of SPJ honors the best journalism in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and New Mexico, with its Top of the Rockies Awards.

• Out There won first place for best podcast in our division.

  • The episodes submitted for this award were: “Trial by Fire” by Becky Jensen, “In the Name of Fairness” by Sheeba Joseph and Joseph Hawthorne, and “Running Blind” by Stephanie Maltarich

• Our episode “Outskating Your Demons” took first place for mental health reporting.

• Our episode “In the Name of Fairness” received second place for social justice reporting.

Out There host Willow Belden with the podcast’s SPJ awards (Photo by Willow Belden)

This is the second time Out There has won SPJ awards. In addition, the show has received five national awards from the Public Media Journalists Association (formerly PRNDI).

It's an honor to be recognized by respected journalists in our region. And as always, it's a delight to be making the show for all of you, our listeners.

Spotlight on Divya Anantharaman

BY CARA SCHAEFER

It might feel a little counterintuitive to learn about life from death, but for Divya Anantharaman, taxidermy has offered many lessons. We spoke with Divya about recreating animals, the wonder of stillness, and nature’s idiosyncrasies. 

Photos courtesy of Divya Anantharaman. Horizontal images courtesy of Matthew and Elizabeth Myer Boulton.

OUT THERE: For those who are not familiar with the practice, what is taxidermy?

DIVYA ANANTHARAMAN: Taxidermy is a scientific art form. From the Greek root words, it roughly translates into moving skin or arranging skin. And all that means is that taxidermy is done to replicate an animal using the animal's skin onto an anatomically accurate form. So the only thing real in taxidermy — the only thing original to the animal — is the skin. So the eyes are recreated, the body forms are recreated, everything else of their anatomy is recreated.

OT: How did you get started doing taxidermy?

DA: It was a hobby at first. I always liked taxidermy. I thought it was really beautiful. Growing up in a big city, I went to natural history museums, and that's often how I would experience nature. I would see the taxidermy, and I was just amazed by how beautiful those animals were. It felt so special to be able to be in front of something like a lion, or a giraffe, or a zebra. It let me experience those animals, and have that stillness with them, and kind of get to know what the animals look like and how they behave, what their habitats are. I collected books on taxidermy, and was like, ‘One day I'll do this.’ 

And once I finally had a place of my own, I was like, ‘Alright, cool, I'm gonna start collecting old supplies and things like that.’ And I just started doing it as a hobby. The first thing I mounted was a squirrel. It was a piece of roadkill that I found while I was out hiking somewhere. 

OT: What's the process you go through to create a taxidermy mount or display?

DA: So first is obtaining the specimen. I usually buy them, but occasionally people donate specimens to me. If it's something for an educational client, they usually supply the specimen themselves, because a lot of educational clients want to mount things that are protected for public display. The next step would be storing the specimen, so freezing it. Then to start, you thaw the specimen out, and you skin the specimen. That's removing the skin from the body, which is done pretty carefully. I mostly work on birds, so they can be fairly delicate compared to some mammals. 

Once the skin is removed, it's then cleaned and flushed. Anything that could possibly rot, anything that could possibly prevent the skin from absorbing a preservative, is removed. So you're removing fat. You're removing connective tissue. You’re removing all of that stuff, so all you have left is just a nice clean skin that's been washed. Another thing that we'll do is degrease the skin, because sometimes certain skins can have a lot of fat or oil in them. And then once that's done, then a preservative is applied to the skin.

Usually while the skin is being preserved and tanned, I'm multitasking and making an anatomically accurate taxidermy form. Once you’ve made your form, you mount your skin onto it, sew it up, and then you also have the finishing work, which is sort of the fine details. So — going off of birds — painting the feet on a bird, or painting any of the soft tissue that might have faded through the preservation process. And resculpting anything that might have shrunk, like soft tissue such as eyelids or the tissue that’s around the face or beak. Once that finishing work is done, it's placed in a habitat or on a base, and then that's your finished piece of taxidermy. 

OT: How do you think taxidermy can be used to spark wonder and curiosity about the natural world?

DA: I love going birding. I also love getting outside. There's a great value in being in nature, whether it's in a local park or a grand trip to a particular destination. But with taxidermy, you can kind of meet nature anywhere. If someone has taxidermy in their home, or someone goes and sees it in a museum or a restaurant, it gets the average person — who's not a professional that works in or around wildlife — to think about animals. And I think there's really great value in that, that's often overlooked. 

Another thing that taxidermy offers us is stillness. Doing something like bird watching, you're really just seeing this little blur in your binoculars, and conferring with people on field marks and other identifying factors to make sure that the bird you saw is the bird you think you saw. With taxidermy, there's no mistaking what you're seeing. But it’s not just about the accuracy; I think that stillness also gives us stillness in ourselves. And it lets us think about our mortality, and animals, and all of these concepts in a way that shows a different sort of connection than just going somewhere, seeing something is moving around, and then going away. You can sit next to — and I've done this before — certain dioramas for hours, and just look at everything in there. I think that stillness inspires a different type of wonder, and a different type of contemplation, in people.

OT: What's something that you yourself have learned about nature from observing the taxidermy animals you work with?

DA: One of the most surprising lessons that I’ve learned is about birds. Birds are MUCH smaller than their feather loft. For example, this owl may look like it's football sized, but its body is maybe the size of my fist, and everything in between is all fluffed out feathers. It's made me find some wonder in knowing that nature sort of has all these mysteries that we don't know about until we get close to them. 

And also seeing the asymmetries and imperfections. Because often, taxidermy is very much about the most idealized form of a creature. Or something being this sort of old, colonial idea of the trophy of the most majestic beast — or the most idealized version of an animal. Whereas for me, taxidermy is all about that individual animal, and all of its imperfections, and everything about it that doesn't make it a “trophy.” 

OT: Has taxidermy changed the way you think about the cycles of life as well?

DA: Absolutely. I think what I hear the most from people who are new to taxidermy, or people who have this preconceived notion of it, is that taxidermy is sad, and that death is really sad. Which it is, I mean no one looks forward to that. No one wants death to happen. But death is also a natural part of the life cycle. Knowing that has helped me live better. Knowing that time is limited, and seeing a reminder of that every day, has made me value the limited time that I have even more.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Divya on Instagram, TikTok, and at her website. You can also support their work on Patreon.

Spotlight on Anastasia Allison

BY CARA SCHAEFER

Have you ever serenaded a sunrise? Or played to an audience of birds, mountains, and trees?  We spoke with Anastasia Allison, a musician and founder of the outdoor gear company Kula Cloth, about the Musical Mountaineers, nature’s notes, and our upcoming open mic night. 

Photos courtesy of Anastasia Allison.

OUT THERE: I know you wear a lot of different hats. How would you describe yourself?

ANASTASIA ALLISON: I would describe myself as a very curious entrepreneur, with a penchant for making work fun. I own a gear company, I dance, and I play music. I’m somebody who lives life on the edge of my seat, excited about whatever's next, and open to all possibilities.

OT: How do you balance all your different pursuits and still make time for outdoor adventures? 

AA: I would say that being a full-time entrepreneur is less about work-life balance, and more about work-life integration. There is really no hard boundary between what I'm doing with Kula and the things that I enjoy in my life. And I think that translates into it being a successful business, because I can combine so many things that I love. That being said, I truly prioritize spending time away from email and social media. That's something that I do not only daily, but also try to make sure to do for periods of time. 

OT: What is the origin story for the Musical Mountaineers?

AA: The Musical Mountaineers was born through a really serendipitous series of events. I was at a point in my life where I had been extremely negatively focused on things that I didn't like for a long time. I would have considered myself the ‘Chief Complainer’ at my job. After working a night shift, I got into bed one night, and had this idea — this voice — pop into my head that said, ‘Go play your violin on the summit of a mountain.’ And I thought, ‘Oh, that's really cool. That's my ticket to freedom.’ I posted an ad on Craigslist for myself as an adventure elopement violinist and got, not surprisingly, like zero responses. So, I put that idea on the backburner.

I had a near death experience in 2017. That was the catalyst for me beginning to implement practices in my life that helped me focus on being present, and finding more gratitude for life itself. One of the little habits that I started doing every day was trying to give something away, whether that was buying a random stranger coffee or whatever. One day I decided to do a giveaway on my personal Instagram account, which at the time had maybe 70 followers (I sort of jokingly say that 10 of those were my mom following me under different accounts). I gave away a book about hiking, and one woman entered the giveaway total, Rose. 

It turned out that Rose was a lifelong piano player, who had a dream of bringing a piano into the backcountry . We met in person a few months later, realized we both had this dream to bring our music outside, and we hatched a plan to do it. And on September 1, 2017, we carried my violin and Rose’s keyboard into the mountains for a sunrise serenade. And we wore gowns, because it felt like this sacred experience for both of us. That was our very first concert.

OT: In what ways does creating music in nature resonate with you?

AA: Nature and music are both languages that anybody can understand. Whether you speak the same verbal language or not, people can look at a sunrise or a sunset, or they can feel the breeze or the sun on their face, or hear a bird. Nature evokes this sense of belonging within each of us — that is sort of a universal truth. And I think music has that same power. 

The other thing that's really special about it, is that so often we're used to listening to music in venues like a concert hall. And immediately after the music plays, that space is sort of filled with applause. The really magical part about the Musical Mountaineers is that we never announce our concerts. We simply do them. And the music is really beautiful, but the silence that exists on either side of the music is just as special.

OT: Real talk, how do you get your instruments out there?

AA: It is pretty tricky. We have gotten it down to a science at this point, but realistically, it's just a lot of hard work. There's this interesting juxtaposition that happens between the really physical act of hauling instruments up the side of a mountain, which is sort of this gritty, tangible experience, and then you get up on top, and change from hiking clothes into these elegant gowns. And now there's this much more delicate attention, and this ethereal nature of what we're doing. I've always enjoyed this sort of “dirty elegance.”

OT: Do you think the natural world has its own music? 

AA: I sure do. Rose and I do a lot of improvisation, and what I've noticed is that each unique spot  — we've played in the desert, on the beach, in the mountains, on a lake — seems to evoke new melodies and new creativity out of us. And so often it feels more as though we are in symphony with nature itself, not just each other. 

A lot of times we hear birds, or a few times we've heard the waves lapping against the beach, and those moments really add to the experience. We record a lot of our music using a special audio recorder that allows people to hear all of the sounds, and I think that's really unique, because a lot of people do these cool music videos that are filmed in nature, but then they're usually dubbing music in over the video so they can get that beautiful studio sound. We're including all of the nature sounds. So that means you're going to hear wind blowing, almost as if you were there and a part of it. We’re not trying to change, or edit, what was happening in the moment.

OT: Out There Podcast and Kula Cloth’s virtual open mic night is coming up on March 31. Why should everyone check that out?

AA: Creativity is something that should be celebrated. There is nothing that I enjoy more than watching other people create — watching what happens in the moment. To be able to share what you're doing with others is truly a gift. 

And it's a gift that we're not only receiving from the performer itself, but also that we are giving by showing up, and saying to that person, “You belong, and I want to celebrate who you are.” There's nothing more powerful that we can do than just show up and offer support to people who are putting themselves out there, which can be scary, especially if it's not something you do all the time.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find the Musical Mountaineers on Instagram. You can learn more about Kula Cloth at their website or on Instagram.

Spotlight on Annie Varnot

BY CARA SCHAEFER

While it’s impossible to capture the beauty of the natural world in one image, some of artist Annie Varnot’s paintings come pretty close. We spoke with her about backpacking the Pacific Crest Trail, the emotions that come with a thru-hike, and how art has influenced her perspective on nature.

Art photos courtesy of Annie Varnot.

OUT THERE: How did nature become a focal point of your art?

ANNIE VARNOT: It essentially became a focal point when I moved to New York City, and my environment lacked anything that was natural, besides myself and other humans. It was very gray and gridded, and I immediately started getting panic attacks. I didn't realize that I would have such a severe reaction to the city, coming from a rural upbringing living off the land.

And it was at the same time when things like cell phone towers were being made to look like trees, and there was this odd feeling in the world, for me, about our relationship to nature. So I started making drinking straw sculptures in my studio with repurposed materials. At first, it was me going out and hunting trash — straws, things like that. I made these organisms and landscapes that I would illuminate on custom light tables, or pedestals, and I would work through my concern about the environment, and optics, and ethics in the ocean. I was asking the question, can you take non-natural materials and mimic or reference nature, and get the property of nature from that? In the end, that didn't give me the benefits I seek from nature , but that’s how I started. 

OT: Can you describe an experience that you had while hiking that later appeared in your work? 

AV: I was working with the drinking straw sculptures for quite a long time, though I wasn’t making as much artwork as I wanted, since I was trying to make a living in New York City. Around that time I had some really traumatic things happen in my life. I was diagnosed with cancer. I got married, and then miscarried in the same year. I got divorced. I was so devastated. 

I had a friend who was an artist, and an adventurer too. Her trail name is Wandering Dot, and in 2011 she was attempting the PCT. She asked, “Why don’t you kickstart my hike with me?” She hadn't done anything like this before, and she was nervous. And I was just an emotional dead weight. I was like, ‘Who the hell would want to hike with me?’ I was so depressed. So, we got out there, and we had planned to share all her gear, and it was just so obvious after one night that no, we can’t share a one-person tent. No, we both need our own water filters. I borrowed some gear from a trail angel, Scout. 

I had to get off to fulfill my responsibilities at an artist fellowship in Wyoming. I went back to New York City after the residency, and knew I had to get back to trail. I was immediately so immersed in it, and in love with it.

I hadn’t really connected the experience of backpacking with my art yet, but I did start to draw on the half-mile topo maps, and I would cut them up and collage them. I was exploring the iconography that was specific to my experience on the trail, and how it could live within a visual medium. I started to use art, collage, watercolor, and even the drinking straws, to get more specific and learn more about actual places, versus general places. I started to make maps of my day on the PCT with hints to locations, or the parts of the trail, and then some sort of language, like the keys that maps have. I tend to gravitate more towards the emotional aspect of the experience and being in a place. And also all of the different aspects of experiencing the trail while moving — more of how I see it, versus how I would see it through a camera lens. 

Photo courtesy of Jennifer Gift.

OT: What does long distance hiking feel like for you? 

AV: I feel, ironically, so connected. In New York City, amongst all of the people, I feel very alone. When I'm in nature, I never feel lonely. I've had these transcendental, spiritual experiences being out on the trail, the first happening on the Pacific Crest Trail which was my first thru-hike. I had this moment where I had been hiking solo for quite some time, so I wasn't thinking in a verbal language. I had this complete boundaryless experience, where everything was connected. I was both miniscule, but also important. I had read about this egoless experience, but I had never experienced it. Just trying to recollect that moment makes me teary. It felt as if I finally understood my existence on the planet, and I didn't really need to do anything to have purpose. 

And then getting off of the trail, when you re-enter civilization, there is an extreme counter observation of materialism. On the trail, I didn't have a mirror. I could have had all kinds of shit going on on my face. And it didn't matter. Everybody who was on the trail around you embraced that, and it didn't matter at all. Getting back, I felt the extreme level of consumerism and materialism. The reflection of a mirror in other people's faces and feeling judged — like there was something wrong with me because I didn't look like them. All of that becomes internalized as, ‘I need to be a certain way to be valued in society.’

The overall feeling of being on trail is this ultimate freedom in surrendering all of the weight that we impose on ourselves while in civilization. We're so overwhelmed with all of these tasks we need to do, or the sense that we have these obligations. When you're out on trail, all of that goes away, and there's so much space.

OT: Has creating art influenced the way that you see nature? 

AV: When I first went to the Pacific Crest Trail, I didn't have an art project in mind that I wanted to partake in while I was hiking. I wanted to just have the experience of thru-hiking, because thru-hiking is so hard already, and I wanted to be open to whatever came in this place of the unknown. Then towards the end of the Pacific Crest Trail, I had this moment of, ‘This is what I want to talk about. Nature.’ My experience in nature, and how important nature is to us. And what's happening out there, because being out there you experience climate change on a daily level. It affects your hike. 

So I thought, let's paint it. When I went back out into nature, I definitely was looking more keenly at form, and subject, and shape. And specificity like, ‘Oh look at the shape of this tree. How is that shape different from this shape?’ I hadn't practiced painting trees ever, so it was just looking, observing, and absorbing from different perspectives — like being up high versus being down low. And the sky, it’s a phenomenal subject! It’s endless. It's just lovely.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find more of Annie’s work at her website and on Instagram. You can also read her CDTC Passages article here.

Spotlight on Samara Almonte

BY CARA SCHAEFER

How do the stories we tell shape our relationship to the earth? We spoke with Samara Almonte, a multimedia storyteller and host of the podcast Raíces Verdes, about capturing stories, imagining a better world, and reconnecting to your roots.

Photos courtesy of Samara Almonte.

OUT THERE: How did you find your voice as a storyteller?

SAMARA ALMONTE: I think this was always something that I was meant to do. My parents would joke about me being the kind of kid that was always asking, “Why? Why this? Explain this to me.” I was very curious as a child, and I was lucky enough to grow up in an environment that really allowed for that. And I’ve always enjoyed listening to stories by my elders, or my peers, and learning through the experiences of other people. 

Eventually, in undergrad, I refound this part of me as I started connecting more with my indigenous roots and indigenous knowledge in my community. I realized that storytelling is fundamental to our survival. And I figured it was time for me to really own that gift I've been given, and to be someone in my community that goes out and captures stories. 

OT: In what ways do you think storytelling, especially storytelling centered around environmental justice, can affect others?

SA: I think with climate change, or any social issue really, a lot of people will create this sort of doomsday narrative. And those are stories themselves, right? They're very dystopian stories. And although there's truth in them, I think at the end of the day storytelling is important because we need those stories of hope. 

A lot of my mentors, whether I've met them in person or not, have been writers like bell hooks and Angela Davis, and indigenous scholars like Robin Kimmerer and those from my community, that are writing from this perspective of radical imagination, radical love, and transformative justice. They all are talking about how a different world is possible, because we had other systems in place before the development of capitalism. Before colonial genocide began to take place, we had different structures of being in relationship with the earth. 

With storytelling, we're capturing some of that ancestral knowledge, but also bringing it into the present and future, and weaving that into, ‘Okay, what kind of stories can we tell, to build our imagination of a different world? ‘

If we're only telling stories of doomsday for the climate crisis, we're not going to want to get anything done, because it's gonna seem like, ‘What's the point?’ If we're telling stories that a different world is very much possible, that it is tangible to dismantle these systems, I think that gives people a lot more courage and hope to organize and come together, because there is something that we're working towards that is beautiful. A different system that could allow for more conversations of healing, and reciprocity with the earth, and have a regenerative, type of mindset. Storytelling is important so that we have the hope to keep going. 

OT: How do you define raíces verdes, or green roots, and what does that mean to you personally?

SA: The concept really came to me thinking about my story of diaspora. My family has migrated north up to now what we call Washington State. We've lived across the West Coast, just constantly migrating up north, and I was thinking about how every move sent us further and further away from our ancestral home. And thinking about how I miss my grandmother, and my cousins, and all these different people from my community, I also eventually realized I missed a lot of the land and earth elements of our territory. I would miss the different bodies of water that we have connections to, and the different foods that we traditionally could harvest throughout the year. 

Thinking about that, I was like, ‘I think all of us, especially folks of the diaspora, really should think about what are our ancestral connections to land and the environment. How can we reconnect with that part that has been essentially numbed a little bit by these systems like capitalism?’ For us, for Black and indigenous people and people of color, those connections to land and the environment had been almost erased, or attempted to be erased, by colonial genocide. 

I think reconnecting to those parts of us can look different ways. For some people, maybe reconnecting means going out more in nature, and just finding pleasure in that like their ancestors might have. Or maybe for someone that means finding ways to cook more with their traditional foods. That's a way of reconnecting with your green roots. Or it can look like learning your native language, and then you find out how to talk about nature in your native language. 

OT: What’s an episode or two of Raíces Verdes that you would recommend new listeners start out with? 

SA: If you want to go super far back, I would say that very first interview I do with Dario Castellon about homecoming and romanticizing the environment in our homelands. I like it because we both talked about how we often miss our homelands, but also understand that going back home wouldn't be ideal. In this case, he talks about being queer, and how he would face different types of struggles if he decided to go back to his rural community, even though he would be more connected to the land. If people are looking for something more recent, I also really liked the series around being Muslim and thinking about the environment. What we'll consider traditional nature writing, it's a lot of Christian white men, so I think it was really beautiful for me to focus on three different Muslim woman that wanted to talk about how Islam really helps them connect to the environment. 

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Raíces Verdes at their website, on Youtube, and on Instagram. To support Raíces Verdes click here to donate. To learn more about Samara’s work, check out her profile on the Outbound and Shado Magazine.

Spotlight on Virginia Rose

BY CARA SCHAEFER

If you’ve ever spent time squinting through a pair of binoculars, trying to identify a warbler high above you in the trees, you may be familiar with the joys of birdwatching. You might also be familiar with the accessibility challenges many birders face. We spoke with Virginia Rose, founder of the non-profit Birdability, about birding as a wheelchair user, accessible outdoor recreation, and amusing bird encounters. 

Photos courtesy of Birdability’s Instagram page (linked at the bottom of the profile).

OUT THERE: How did you get into birding? 

VIRGINIA ROSE: There were several  influences, one of whom was my grandmother, who birded her entire life. I remember her with her little gray head of curls, her green leather jacket, and she always had her binoculars around her neck. When she passed away, she left me her Peterson's guide, and it had all of her observations in it, which was so fun, and so dear to me now. 

I didn't start birding until I was 42. One evening, driving home from work, I listened to an ad that said there was going to be a birding seminar at the neighborhood Unitarian Church. So I went, and it was all about the breeding success of the house finch, or something just random like that. I was so enthralled that as I left the meeting, I called my mom, and I said, “Mom, why didn't you tell me I was a nerd? My life would have been so much easier.” I still think that. 

OT: Is there a bird that is especially dear to your heart?

VR: No, I love them all! The saying goes that the last bird I saw is my favorite. So I'm going to plead that. It's sort of like taking the fifth. 

OT: How have accessible spaces, or the lack thereof, affected your ability to go birding?

VR: Well, that's a huge question. I have been in a wheelchair for 48 years. I've always been super fit and super outside. And when I started birding, I didn't know any other people in wheelchairs who birded. And so I just hoofed along with all the walking people wherever they went. It didn't really dawn on me that I could ask for an accessible birding space. Mainly, it's because I was raised that way, which is to not ask for accommodations, and just to do the best I could. 

It finally dawned on me, particularly as my joints were aging with overuse, that maybe the reason I don't ever see any other people in wheelchairs birding is because they don't know they can do it. I needed to do something to make sure that people who have mobility challenges know about birding, and in that effort, make sure that we could identify accessible parks or birding sites. And of course, I couldn't do all that myself (although I wanted to).That's how Birdability came about.

OT: Can you tell me more about Birdability? 

VR: The first thing I did was just make a list of the access considerations that walking people would need to know in order to identify a park as accessible or not. And that very quickly turned into a fabulous, GIS map. We now have over 1000 sites; it's just amazing. We created this interactive map online, whereby people can simply pull up the list of access considerations and check for each one of those categories what is present, or not present, at the site. So, for instance, parking would be the first category. Second would be the restrooms. Third would be the surfaces of the trail. Fourth would be whether or not there are benches. There's 30-something categories now. 

There was such an outcry. People were like, “Wait, you need to be addressing the needs of the blind and people who have low vision; you need to address the deaf and hard of hearing; we need to address autism and other health concerns.” And that's when I realized, ‘Oh, you know what? This is for everybody.’ Because this is going to be each one of us in 10 years, or 20 years or 30 years as we age, right? These are our grandparents. These are our moms with strollers and toddlers. This is every single person. 

OT: What are a few ways that you think we can make birding and other forms of outdoor recreation more accessible? 

VR: First, if you don't even know what access considerations are, go to the Birdability map and look at the site reviews. All of the things that we need to be thinking about are there. We're talking about signage. We're talking about tactile opportunities, like ropes, for people who are blind or have low vision. We're talking about voice boxes that tell you what the text says, and railings that are low enough — or have the kind of material — that don't obstruct the views of people who are seated. We're talking about benches for people who have all kinds of different reasons for needing to stop every eighth of a mile. We're talking about the grade of the slope, and about using a surface that's going to be good for wheelchairs and strollers. Once we start recognizing all of these various access considerations, that's when we're going to start making everything more accessible for everybody. 

OT: What's the most amusing thing you've ever watched a bird do? 

VR: Recently I was having breakfast outside with a friend — in a parking lot, because I'm still a little nervous about sitting inside with Covid. I looked over and I saw this bird. It was a Cooper's hawk poking around a parked truck. And it was walking very cautiously around the truck, just sort of exploring. I'm thinking, ‘What is going on?’ Then the bird comes back around the front of the truck, and looks under a tire, and three great-tailed grackles come screaming out of there, making all kinds of racket. I swear the hawk like jumped back. I think he startled them…and startled himself! He was very slow to pursue them. Apparently the grackles were hiding behind that tire. I've never seen anything quite like it.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can learn more about Birdability at their website, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter. You can also support Birdability's work to ensure that birding and the outdoors are for everybody and every body by donating here.

Spotlight on Ty Vaughn

BY CARA SCHAEFER

While heights may sound like an intimidating prospect to some (like me), taking to the sky can open up new possibilities. We spoke with Ty Vaughn, known as Adventuress Ty, about zip lining, fear, and connecting others to their own sense of adventure. 

Photos courtesy of Ty Vaughn.

OUT THERE: What was your first experience with zip lining like? 

TY VAUGHN: My very first experience zip lining was actually Catalina Island here in California. I was inspired to do that zipline from watching my favorite show, “The Amazing Race.”They have these teams that travel around the world and do these amazing adventures and tasks, and the zip lining really caught my attention. So my husband asked me what I wanted to do for my 40th birthday, and I'm like, “I think I want to go zip lining.”

The zip line had five zips that connected, and once I stepped off that first one it really took my breath away, literally and figuratively. I thought I must be like on another planet. It was an amazing adrenaline rush. The feeling of flying, of not being trapped by anything. The air. The wind. Being a part of nothing, but yet being a part of everything.

It was something that I had never experienced before. And I loved it. You’re looking at mountains, and you're going 55, 60 miles an hour on the cable. You know there's nothing underneath you. There's nothing over you. It was a sense of freedom that I had never felt before.

OT: When did you start to bring other people along on your adventures? 

TV: I’m actually a professional nanny. One of the little girls that I was nannying was going to a gymnastics class, and I met a young lady there by the name of Mika. Her and I got to talking about what we do outside of our regular jobs, and I mentioned that I really enjoyed zip lining. And she was pretty much blown away, like, “You do what?” 

We did a zip line together, and she filmed it. And she said, “This right here is pretty remarkable. And I think you need to share this with other people.” I was kind of like, “Whoa, why would I really want to do that?” 

“No, no, no. You have to do this,” she said. “People that look like us need to know that this is out there. And you could be the mouthpiece to share this.” So I ran a post on social media for a group zip lining trip, just to see what happened, and it sold out. We were onto something. 

OT: You've also done other things like bungee jumping and skydiving that are generally considered pretty scary. How do you approach fear in your life? 

TV: That's interesting. I'm going to go back to that first zipline on Catalina Island. The one thing that I didn't entertain was fear. Because I think if you bring fear into the equation it prohibits you, it limits you, and it makes you think about why you shouldn't do certain things. So I didn't decide to entertain the word fear, because I knew that I wouldn't proceed. 

As the adventures have continued to stack up, we added skydiving, bungee jumping, ATV riding, kayaking and paragliding to the mix. My thing is, if I'm going to do something like that, it's 100% commitment. And I don't process, ‘What if this doesn't work out?’ I process, ‘How much enjoyment am I going to get from this? How is this going to feel?’ I think my approach to adventure is not about the mishaps, it's more about making these memories, and doing something that I have no control over. Having that edge, it's exciting for me. It's like that climax — whatever happens, happens. I can't control that, but I'm willing to try it.

So when we skydive, or bungee jump, am I nervous? Absolutely. Am I processing sometimes, ‘What am I doing? How did I get here?’ Absolutely. A lot of times, adventure becomes a metaphor for life. The reality is we are always being challenged. There's always going to be obstacles to overcome. There's fear. There's worry. There's doubt. All of these things are mixed and mingled in our thought process every single day. But we take risks. We were designed to go out there and figure things out, to make things happen, regardless of what the outcome is. To go beyond what you can do. That’s what adventure is. Adventure says, “I’m going to take the limits off, I’m just going for it. And when the chips fall, that's just where they fall.” But I promise you, I'm gonna have a smile on my face all the way up, or all the way down.

OT: What would you say to someone who felt they were too old to try something new? 

TV: The reality is you can pretty much do whatever it is that you choose to do, so long as you have the physical capabilities of doing it. Adventure is not limited to an age group. It is limited to a person who has a limited mindset. Some people will cap themselves off because they think, ‘Oh, I'm too old.’ Let me tell you something: You are never too old to breathe, and to live, and to maximize the gift and the life that God has given you. If you are open to new things and you want to try something, do it. 

There was a lady at my church who wanted to zip line. She explained to me that she had five children, and eight grandchildren, and none of them would take her zip lining because they felt that it was past her time to do so. And I said, “Well, if this is what you want to do, I will gladly take you.” It was her 75th birthday, and it meant the world to her to go. It didn't matter to her that the person taking her was a stranger. She had a hunger to do something that she had never done before, and she defied what her family said, because she knew she could do it. 

We took her over to Catalina Island on a beautiful day in September. And she zip lined, and it was the most thrilling day of her life. She laughed. She cried. She clapped her hands. She was just excited. And she had nothing to stop her at that moment, because she knew that she was free.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

You can find Ty on Youtube and Instagram.