Don't Take 'No' for an Answer
/By Willow Belden, produced by Out There Podcast
Re-released on July 1, 2021
Welcome to Out There Podcast. Our stories are written for the ear, so for those able, we recommend listening while reading along. Transcripts may contain minor errors; please check the audio before quoting.
(sound of wind blowing)
WILLOW BELDEN: It’s a sunny day, and I’m out for a mountain bike ride. From the open prairie, I can see three separate mountain ranges.
I get out my phone and open up an app called Peak Visor.
Peak Visor is one of our sponsors for this episode. They’re on a mission to help you figure out what mountains you’re looking at — wherever you are in the world.
WILLOW: Okay, so that’s the Rawahs, and that’s Rocky Mountain National Park. Very cool.
WILLOW: The app labels all the peaks, and tells me how far away they are.
There’s also a peak bagging feature. So if I decide to climb one of these mountains, I can check in at the summit and keep track of my achievements.
Check out PeakVisor in the app store. You just might love it.
(wind noises fade out)
For a lot of us, summer means road trips. Which also means you’re probably looking for good things to listen to in the car.
Another one of Out There’s sponsors is a podcast called Out Travel the System. Out Travel the System is brought to you by Expedia, and its mission is to inspire and inform about travel. That can mean anything from building your bucket list, to taking concrete steps to take that next trip when the time is right.
The podcast finds people who are passionate about travel - including a commercial airline pilot, a woman who pretty much travels year-round, and a man who wants to have visited every country in the world by the end of this year. When it comes to inspiration, Out Travel the System is also giving a voice to people who love their hometowns — and want to share them with travelers — or people who love, say, lake or beach life in the winter.
Out Travel the System is available wherever you get your podcasts. You can like and subscribe to get all the latest episodes.
(Out There theme music begins)
WILLOW: Hi, I’m Willow Belden, and you’re listening to Out There, the podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.
On this episode, we’re going to talk about a compulsion that I think a lot of us feel: it’s the compulsion to keep pushing on, until we reach our goals.
We argue our way into things, we bulldoze through obstacles, and we pride ourselves on being people who GET STUFF DONE.
But what happens if you suddenly lose that ability? What happens when you can’t get things done — when something you’ve always taken for granted is taken away from you, and you’re forced to stop?
I’m going to share a story that first aired in 2019. It’s a story about something that happened to me a few summers ago, which completely changed my mindset about what it means to give in.
(Out There theme music fades out)
So, my mother always taught me that I should never take “no” for an answer. If you don’t get what you want the first time around, you try again. Ask differently. Keep pushing.
Growing up, I took this advice to heart.
In college, whenever I didn’t get into a class I wanted, I’d show up anyway...and I’d keep showing up, until the professor finally let me in.
As a journalist, if a source refused to talk with me, I’d badger them until I got a quote.
Even when it came to mundane tasks, I refused to take “no” for an answer. If there was a mistake on my phone bill, and the customer service rep said there was nothing they could do, I’d keep arguing until they let me talk to a manager.
(upbeat music begins)
It was an effective strategy. I pushed hard, and a lot of the time, I got what I wanted.
But then, one day last summer, something happened that changed the way I think about this drive to win. For the first time, I was forced to back down — in a big way. And that gave me a whole new perspective on my impulse to control things.
(music fades out)
It all started on a beautiful June morning. I was out for a mountain bike ride, and I felt great. My muscles were strong; I was sailing over rocks; and on the downhills, I was cruising. It was exhilarating.
And then, all of a sudden, the world was spinning out of control.
(tense music begins)
I was on the ground ... my bike was on top of me ... and my whole left side felt crushed. I remember gasping, struggling to breathe. It felt like all the air had been sucked out of my lungs.
Luckily, I had been riding with a friend, and now, there she was, leaning over me, asking me questions. But I couldn’t seem to arrange my thoughts coherently. Everything came out all mumbly.
We were only a couple of miles from the trailhead, but it was clear very quickly that I would not be able to walk out, let alone ride. Every time I tried to sit up, I got nauseous and dizzy.
In the end, my friend called 911.
I lay in the trail for two hours while we waited for help. The pain was so intense that I was crying — big, fat ugly tears. A burning sensation had spread over my left hip and my pelvis. My arms went numb — first the left one, and then the right. And every breath felt like I was being stabbed.
Finally, medics arrived on ATVs. They poked and prodded me; they asked me if I knew my name and what day it was. Eventually, after the nausea had subsided enough for me to sit up, they loaded me onto an ATV and brought me back to the trailhead.
I was given strict orders to stay with friends that day. The medics told me I had a concussion and that I needed to be monitored, in case things took a turn for the worse. If I started slurring my speech or vomiting, they said to go to the ER immediately.
Luckily, neither of those things happened. But I was still in pretty rough shape.
(sound of birds chirping in the background)
By the next morning, it was a struggle just to form sentences.
WILLOW: Okay, so I’m sitting in my backyard, drinking some coffee. Um. Man, I’m tired.
WILLOW: I was recording an audio diary, because I didn’t have enough energy to actually write in my journal.
WILLOW: Last night was pretty rough. I ended up alternating Tylenol and Ibuprofen, because the triple dose of Tylenol wore off in three hours, and there’s only so often you can take it. And the night – I just, I mean I couldn’t get comfortable, I couldn’t get to sleep. Everything hurt. I couldn’t get into a position...it just felt like 100% of the time, somebody was jamming the sharp end of a screwdriver into the soft tissue around my spine.
WILLOW: So yeah...it was pretty miserable.
And yet, despite all the pain and the fact that my brain was only functioning at partial speed, something surprising was already starting to happen.
I remember feeling this odd sense of relief. And no – it wasn’t the relief of living through an accident. Instead, it was the relief of knowing that I was allowed to relax. That I HAD to relax.
WILLOW: Like, there’s nothing I can do. There’s nothing I’m even allowed to do. I have a concussion, which means I can’t do work, I need to take it easy, I need to rest my brain, I need to...like I can’t be on screens, we need to limit screen time.
WILLOW: It was like I finally had to get off the hamster wheel. I had to drop everything and let go. And I remember feeling so grateful about the forced relaxation.
(bird sounds fade out and soothing music begins to play)
WILLOW: I rested all weekend. I slept a lot, took quadruple doses of Tylenol and Ibuprofen. Turns out, in addition to the concussion, I had sprained some ribs — and sprained ribs are pretty painful.
(music fades out)
And then, it was Monday.
I knew I was still a mess. I knew I still had a concussion and that I would have to take it easy for a while. But I figured I could at least do a few hours of work. Wrap up that week’s episode for Out There, answer some emails.
(scoffing sound)
Turns out, I was completely useless. After about 20 minutes on the computer, I already had a nasty headache. My eyes were hurting from looking at the screen. And I was so, so tired. Like, more tired than I can ever remember being.
(soft music begins)
So, I shut my computer, and I took a long nap.
When I woke up, the headache was still there, and I felt dazed. Almost as if I were tipsy.
I started worrying about work. What if I couldn’t get the next podcast episode out on time? I had never missed an episode, and it seemed unfathomable to miss one now.
But at the same time, I knew I couldn’t get any more work done that day. My brain was telling me, “No,” and I didn’t have the strength to argue.
Here’s what I recorded in my audio diary that night:
WILLOW: It’s kind of scary really. I mean, my brain is very literally saying, “You cannot do anything right now.” And if I try to defy it and just push through and go for it anyway, it just shuts me down. This is the first time ever where I have to take “no” for an answer; I don’t have a choice. My brain literally doesn’t have the capacity to push through this. I can’t muscle through it.
WILLOW: Over the next few weeks, my body kept telling me “no.” The headaches were constant. Any amount of time on the computer made my eyes hurt. And I was exhausted all the time. I was sleeping 14 hours a day. And if I even so much as talked on the phone with a friend, I needed a nap to recover.
Work was out of the question.
(music begins)
A couple of weeks after the bike wreck, I was finally feeling a little better. So I thought, OK, maybe I can handle an hour of something other than just lying on the couch like a vegetable.
I thought about opening up my computer and doing some work. But it was a beautiful day, and I decided to go outside instead.
I took my trekking poles, because I still felt unsteady, and I set off on a very mellow trail. Just a tiny baby hike.
(sound of walking and breathing hard)
The fresh air felt good, but I definitely wasn’t my normal self.
WILLOW: I can’t believe how slow I’m walking. It feels like I’m an old person or something. Because if I go any faster, my head just starts pounding and I feel kind of dizzy and light-headed.
WILLOW: The going was slow, for sure, but it was something. And as I went along, I found myself getting kind of emotional.
WILLOW: Right now, I don’t have to be strong.
(Willow begins crying)
And I don’t have to prove anything. I just need to do what I need for me. And that’s enough. I don’t know why I’m crying. I just feel really relieved that I’m giving myself permission to be gentle with myself. And I guess it just feels good to be ok with not giving it my all right now. Sometimes you just need a break.
(hiking noises fade out)
Sometimes you DO just need a break.
But you already know that. We’ve all heard stories about the merits of slowing down. About how you don’t always have to give it your all.
And don’t get me wrong — it was good for me to slow down while I was recovering. It was good for me to listen, when my body told me “no.” Learning how to let go is an important lesson, and in my case I had to have a brain injury in order to learn it.
But the bigger takeaway from this whole experience — for me — went much deeper than that. And it was far more unexpected.
Okay, so I’ll have the rest of the story for you in just a moment. But first…
The events you’ve been hearing about took place several years ago. But more recently, life has been hard again. In different ways, but hard nonetheless. And as a result, it’s sometimes tough to stay optimistic. I often find myself spiralling into this mindset where it feels like everything that can go wrong…will go wrong.
I don’t like being in that mindset. So I’ve been trying to find ways to pull myself out of it.
And it turns out that one of our sponsors is helping with that. They’re a company called Qalo, and they make silicone rings for active, outdoorsy people.
So I decided to wear one of their rings as a reminder to myself. A reminder that things could turn out ok.
Every time my mind starts to scroll through worst-case scenarios, I look at this ring on my finger, and I tell myself that everything might be fine. Things might turn out ok. That is one possible outcome.
It’s amazing how much comfort that brings me.
Whether you’re in the market for a mantra like that, to boost your spirits — or you just want an adventure-proof ring in lieu of a metal wedding band — Qalo has you covered.
For 20% off your purchase, go to qalo.com/outthere. That’s Q-A-L-O-dot-com-slash-outthere. Your 20% off discount will automatically be applied at checkout.
Support for Out There also comes from Life Handle. Life Handle is a weight-distribution sling that allows you to carry things easily and comfortably.
Whether you’re carrying a cooler, or a stand-up paddle board, or a child — it lets you do that without straining your shoulders.
Joe Wold is the inventor and co-founder of Life Handle. He says traditional child carriers have some disadvantages.
JOE WOLD: They’re bulky, they get hot, and at the end of the day, you’re not actually holding the child. And so when the child wants to be held, you have to take them out of these carriers.
WILLOW: In contrast, with Life Handle, you’re still holding the child. It’s just a lot easier on your arms and shoulders.
Life Handle also has a dog leash attachment, so you can walk your dog hands free.
For 20% off your order, go to mylifehandle.com and enter the promo code “OUTTHERE20” at checkout. That’s mylifehandle.com, promo code OUTTHERE20.
And now, back to the story.
It took over a month before I was anywhere near back to normal. And during that time, I had to budget my energy carefully. I found that I could only handle doing one thing each day. Maybe that was an hour of work. Or maybe it was a short walk. But I couldn’t do both. I simply didn’t have the energy.
And, surprisingly, I found myself prioritizing the walks more and more.
Instead of shoving aside outdoor time in order to get work done, I’d do the opposite. I wanted to get my daily dose of fresh air and movement, and I simply didn’t let other responsibilities encroach on that.
(soft music begins)
And then one day, it hit me: this idea that you shouldn’t take “no” for an answer? It can go both ways. It doesn’t just have to apply to obligations — things you should do. It can also apply to things you just want to do.
If I want to spend time out in the sunshine, I can make that a priority. I can refuse to take “no” for an answer — even if it means postponing my responsibilities.
(music fades out)
That thought was so liberating.
In the past, not taking “no” for an answer had been exhausting. The drive to win was like a full-time job. And if I failed to come out on top, I’d beat myself up about it.
Whereas this new type of perseverance — perseverance in the name of FUN, perseverance to keep a healthy balance in life — this was invigorating.
Later that summer, when I was finally feeling like myself again, I decided to treat myself to a day in the mountains. A weekday in the mountains.
I drove out the night before and pitched my tent in a quiet little campground. Before I went to sleep, I unzipped the rainfly and poked my head into the cool night air.
(sound of tent zipper)
WILLOW: Oh, the moon is out. That’s awfully pretty. The moon is not full — it’s not even half, but it’s really lovely. And there are some stars out.
(Willow sighs happily)
WILLOW: This little trip was an experiment. It was an experiment about not taking no for an answer, when it came to having fun, when it came to recharging my spirit.
I knew I could be dogged about achieving things I had to do, but being just as dogged in the name of playtime was new for me.
As it turned out, it was not easy to keep a whole weekday free. Colleagues wanted to schedule meetings. Producers had questions for me. A freelancer needed my help on a time-sensitive story.
I felt guilty, telling all these people I wasn’t available, just so I could go goof off in the mountains. But at the same time, it was liberating to push off responsibilities in favor of doing something just for me.
(cheerful music starts)
It felt good to be the one saying “no” for a change. It was a whole new kind of control – of setting healthy boundaries – that I had never experienced before.
As I snuggled into my sleeping bag that night, everything felt so...right.
WILLOW: It’s really nice here. I feel very peaceful and calm right now, watching the moon and the stars and the quiet night sky.
(music fades out)
WILLOW: I’d love to say that since that evening, I’ve made a habit out of prioritizing playtime. But of course it’s not that simple. Work keeps me busy, and I still tend to set aside my own wants, in order to Get Things Done.
(piano music begins)
But sometimes — not as often as I’d like, but sometimes — I set aside a day, or even just an evening, for myself. I pick one thing that I really want to do, and I promise myself that I’ll make it happen. That I won’t take “no” for an answer.
This story was edited by Becky Jensen. It first aired in 2019.
(music fades out)
Coming up next time on Out There, we bring you the story of a woman who calls herself the Bucket List Traveler. A few years ago, she set out to visit all the national parks in the U.S.
LINDA MOHAMMED: Thursday night I’ll be at LAX waiting to fly somewhere. And then as soon as you get to where I’m going, it’ll be like 6 a.m. driving time to a national park somewhere. And I’ll be back home by Sunday close to midnight and sleep for a couple of hours and then have to go to work on Monday.
(Linda laughs)
WILLOW: But what started as a challenge quickly turned into something more. And it ended up benefiting an entire community of people.
That story is coming up on July 15.
A big thank you to Andy Fowler and Peter Kemmeren for their financial contributions to Out There.
If you’re not yet a supporter of Out There, take a moment and think about how much this podcast is worth to you.
Really, I’m asking you to do this right now: if you had to put a dollar value on Out There, what would each episode be worth? One dollar? Two dollars? Five?
We’ve made it really easy for you to support the show by making small contributions on a monthly basis. For as little as two dollars a month, you can become a patron through a crowd-funding platform called Patreon. You pick the amount you want to give, and then you can sit back and relax, knowing that you’re making a difference.
Just head over to patreon.com/outtherepodcast. That’s patreon.com/outtherepodcast. And I have a link to that in the show notes as well.
Support for Out There comes from Peak Visor. Their app helps you figure out what you’re looking at when you’re out in the mountains.
I recently used it while I was out on a mountain bike ride. The app took a moment to figure out my location, and then it showed me what mountains I could see from my vantage point.
WILLOW: Oh, and then this tells me how far away everything is. Ok so Long’s Peak is 73 miles, as the crow flies. Clark Peak is only 53 miles. Gosh, that’s funny. It takes like two hours to get there.
WILLOW: Mountain names and distances are just a few of the features Peak Visor offers. They also have topo maps, and a peak bagging feature, which lets you check in at summits and keep track of your accomplishments.
If you’re one of those people who likes to know what you’re looking at when you’re out on an adventure, check out Peak Visor in the app store.
(Out There theme music starts)
If you’re new to Out There, check out the “Best of Out There: playlist. This is a collection of some of our favorite episodes of all time. You can find “Best of Out There” on Spotify, and at our website outtherepodcast.com.
That’s it for this episode. Our audience growth director is Sheeba Joseph. Jessica Taylor is our advertising manager. Cara Schaefer is our print content coordinator. Our interns are Melat Amha and Tanya Chawla. Our ambassadors are Tiffany Duong, Ashley White, and Stacia Bennet. And our theme music was written by Jared Arnold.
We’ll see you in two weeks.
(Out There theme music ends on a last whistling note)
