The Motherload

Should you leave your family behind to embark on a solo thru-hike?

BECKY JENSEN ON THE COLORADO TRAIL. (PHOTO COURTESY BECKY JENSEN)

“If a day hike was like a short therapy session, then a 500-mile hike was like long-term rehab. And that’s exactly what I needed.”

— Becky Jensen

Becky Jensen had a lot of things going for her: sweet kids, a caring fiancé, a promising career. But deep down, she wasn't happy. So a few years ago, she left everything (and everyone) behind to thru-hike the Colorado Trail. By herself.

On this episode, she shares her story. It's a story about relationships — both with your family, and with yourself. And it's about the surprising things that can happen to those relationships when you do something selfish — something just for you.

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Conservation 2.0

Inspiration (and warnings) from Theodore Roosevelt’s radical environmentalism

Theodore Roosevelt in Yosemite (photo courtesy David Gessner)

“Roosevelt created the rough draft. And there are flaws in that draft. … We can take the best parts of that old ideal and use them in a new way that’s more inclusive.”

— David Gessner

In 1903, President Theodore Roosevelt stood on the rim of the Grand Canyon and called for the area to be protected.

“Leave it as it is,” he said. “You cannot improve on it.”

Roosevelt went on to preserve an unprecedented 230 million acres of American land.

Our guest on this episode is David Gessner, author of the book Leave It As It Is: A Journey Through Theodore Roosevelt’s American Wilderness. The book explores Roosevelt’s radical efforts to save wild places, while also condemning the dark reality that many of his environmental achievements came at the expense of indigenous communities.

On this episode, we discuss how we can learn from the accomplishments and atrocities of Roosevelt’s era to create a new environmentalism that is not only good for the planet, but also inclusive and just.

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An Unlikely Family

What if you decided to study wild animals by joining their herd?

Joe Hutto spent years embedding himself with a herd of mule deer in Wyoming (photo courtesy Joe Hutto)

“You don’t need to fear affection … and falling in love with an animal. That’s not going to blind you.”

— Joe Hutto

We often assume that scientists are not supposed to fall in love with their research subjects. They’re supposed to remain objective — to keep their feelings and emotions out of their work.

Wildlife researcher Joe Hutto did exactly the opposite. Over a decade ago, he embedded himself with a herd of deer in Wyoming. He figured the best way to understand an animal was essentially to become one of them.

This is the story of how he did that. It’s a story of love, curiosity, and sadness. And it’s about what happens when the line between fact and feeling becomes blurred.

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To hear more about Joe Hutto’s experience living with the deer, check out his book, Touching the Wild.

The Tuesday Spotlight

On Nov. 24, we’ll be launching a new series on our blog and social media, called the Tuesday Spotlight.

The series will highlight people and organizations you might otherwise not hear about, but who are engaging with the outdoors in fascinating and thought-provoking ways.

Listen to “An Unlikely Family” for a sneak peak at the new project. And make sure to follow us on Facebook or Instagram to see the profiles as soon as they’re released.

(Photo courtesy Jawnie Payne, Nashville Zookeeper)

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Out of the Shadows

Erin Parisi is changing the narrative about trans people, one mountaintop at a time

“The narrative that we always see … is trans death and trans violence and trans discrimination. I decided I would change that narrative.”

— Erin Parisi

Growing up, Erin Parisi knew she was a girl. But the body she was born with didn’t match. And growing up in a small town, she didn’t feel safe telling anyone her secret.

It wasn’t until decades later that she finally mustered the courage to come out and transition.

But for Erin, manifesting as a woman wasn’t enough; she recognized that for all her struggles, she had racial and socioeconomic privileges that not all trans people had. And she wanted to leverage those privileges to make a big, bold, trans-positive statement.

So she set out to do something that would make history: climb the Seven Summits.

On this episode, we bring you Erin’s story. It’s a story about hiding, and not hiding. About taking a leap of faith and risking everything. And about trying to show the world that trans people belong (both literally and metaphorically) on the world’s highest mountains.

Natalia Lutterman brings us Erin’s story.

Subscribe to Out There on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

To learn more about Erin Parisi and her Seven Summit bid, check out transending7.org.

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Mr. Fabulous

A conversation with the metrosexual Black thru-hiker who fell in love with the A.T.

Derick Lugo finishes his Appalachian Trail thru-hike on the summit of Mt. Katahdin (Photo courtesy Derick Lugo)

“Fear is the biggest enemy for goals.”

— Derick Lugo

Derick Lugo was not a typical thru-hiker.

A suave, manicured New Yorker, he wasn’t into hiking and had never been camping. But one day, he decided to challenge himself by doing the Appalachian Trail.

Derick’s memoir, The Unlikely Thru-Hiker, is a delightfully cheerful account of his journey, and on this episode, he joins us to talk about it.

We discuss the warm welcome Derick received on the A.T. as a hiker of color; we talk about how the generosity he experienced on the trail shifted his habits back home; and we share the highly entertaining story behind his trail name. Plus: why you shouldn’t fear stepping outside your comfort zone.

Listen to the episode below, on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, on Stitcher, or wherever you stream podcasts.

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A Series of Unlikely Events

What if a fairytale romance could actually work out?

Walt House and Donna Martino (Photo courtesy Walt House and Donna Martino)

“I hate to sound sappy, but if this was meant to be — if he was my soulmate — then I owed it to myself to take this chance.”

— Donna Martino

In 2001, Donna Martino stuck a photograph on her fridge.

Photo from the Chicago TRibune

It was a picture from the newspaper of a handsome kayaker paddling through the surf.

A few months later, Donna matched with the man on a dating website.

The rest is history.

We tend to assume that improbable beginnings are a recipe for disaster — that sappy romances can’t last — that fairytale endings are only for movies.

But sometimes, the real world serves up a dose of schmaltz.

This story is about what happens when coincidences pile up, and strangers go out on a limb and take a chance on each other.

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Under the Radar

A conversation about the ground-breaking mountaineer you never heard of

Christine Boskoff (photo courtesy Johanna Garton)

“[The monks at Lenggu Monastery] said very matter-of-factly to me that the mountain is mighty, and if the mountain is not happy, the mountain will send you down.”

— Johanna Garton

Christine Boskoff was a mountaineer who pushed boundaries and set records on the world’s highest peaks.

She climbed mountains that no North American woman had ever summited, and she was the only American woman to have reached the top of six of the world’s 8,000-meter peaks. She was also a well-respected guide.

But despite her impressive resume, Chris’s story went largely untold — until this year.

This spring, writer Johanna Garton published a book called Edge of the Map, chronicling Chris’s rise in the mountaineering world. Johanna joins us to talk about how Chris got her start, the challenges she faced as a woman in a man’s realm, and the complicated moral questions surrounding her death on a sacred mountain.

Want to read the book?

You can buy signed copies of Edge of the Map here.

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Different Shades of Fear

Why are some people so good at keeping their cool?

David Klebosky on a backpacking trip in the grand canyon (Photo courtesy David Klebosky)

“He never looked at the world as a threat; he looked at it as things you could learn or experience.”

— Tom Klebosky

When David Klebosky was out in the desert earlier this year, he ended up being shot at. The gunfire wasn’t malicious, but there were bullets coming at him.

Yet David didn’t freak out.

Turns out, this kind of response is typical for David; he always seems to remain calm in the face of stress. Whether it’s an outdoor adventure that goes awry, or uncertainty about his career, he manages to keep his cool.

On this episode, producer Max Wasserman delves into David’s past and explores what makes some of us so unflappable.

Max Wasserman is the producer of Everytown, a podcast about a shadow campaign to remove immigrants from one of the wealthiest parts of the country. It's a serialized show with elements of mystery and news, exactly the type of thing you’d enjoy if you liked Serial Season 3. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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Resilience Through Diversity

A Black scientist, a coral rescue project, and a lesson from the ocean

Colin Howe is a marine biologist focusing on corals (Photo courtesy Colin Howe)

“There are so many examples that we can see in the wild of where diversity … can benefit the ecosystem as a whole. And I think there is something we can take from that and apply to our very lives.”

— Colin Howe

As a marine biologist, Colin Howe sees diversity as an indicator of health: the more diverse an ecosystem, the more likely it is to thrive.

But while scientists work hard to preserve diversity in the wild, they often fail to achieve it in the workplace.

Colin is one of just a handful of Black biologists in the United States. According to the National Science Foundation, less than 5 percent of scientists and engineers in the U.S. are Black.

On this episode, we talk with Colin about pursuing his passion in a predominantly white field. And we discuss what the oceans can teach us about the benefits of diversity.

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The Tools to Thrive

Is nature necessary for an emotional reset?

Small beauty on the Camino de Santiago (Photo by KC Cheng)

“The loneliness of the Camino in winter was exactly what I needed. … I enjoyed the luxury of walking at my own pace and not having to worry about making conversation.”

— KC Cheng

When KC Cheng decided to hike the Camino de Santiago, she imagined it as a kind of therapy. She wanted to feel young and adventurous again, in charge of her own life.

Like so many other thru-hikers, she saw a long-distance trek as a much-needed opportunity for an emotional reset.

But what does a long-distance solo trek really do to a person? Does “getting away from it all” change us in a fundamental way?

On this episode, KC shares the story of the surprising realization she made as a result of her pilgrimage.

KC Cheng is a photojournalist and ecologist. You can see more of her work here.

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Black and Outdoorsy

Ron Griswell’s uphill battle to get students of color outside

Ron Griswell is an adventurer and outdoor educator seeking to help students of color get outside. (Photo courtesy Ron Griswell)

“Growing up, I’ve always heard … ‘You’re going to have to work twice as hard to get what someone who is white has.’”

— Ron Griswell

If you attended a predominantly white college or university, there was probably an outdoors program on campus. And it was likely composed of mostly white people.

If you went to a historically Black college or university, chances are, there was no outdoor program. And you probably grew up hearing that the outdoors was for white people.

On this episode, we talk with outdoor adventurer and educator Ron Griswell about his efforts to close the adventure gap. We share the story of how Ron became a leader in the outdoor industry; we discuss the barriers that keep many people of color from engaging in outdoor adventures; and we talk about the ways that Black joy can help combat racist narratives.

Black Joy

For Ron Griswell, “Black joy” is an means of resistance — an unapologetic expression of freedom and happiness that can help erode negative stereotypes.

For our Black listeners: How do you define “Black joy?” What does it mean to you? If you send us a voice message by July 31, 2020, we might air it on the show!

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The Sweetness of Suffering

Big Bend National Park (Photo by the U.S. Geological Survey)

“We all know that bad experiences make for good stories. But it’s become clear to me … that the bad experiences actually make our lives better.”

— Megan McLaughlin

Can hardships enhance our lives?

Everyone suffers. Sometimes it’s obvious; other times it’s less visible. But it’s inevitable that we’ll suffer at some point in our lives. And typically, we hate it.

But what if hardships serve a purpose? What if the struggles we try so hard to avoid could actually enhance our lives?

On this episode, Megan McLaughlin takes us from Big Bend National Park to the forests of Arkansas, and explains how she has found sweetness, both in miserable outdoor experiences, and in a cancer diagnosis.

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Acceptance

How a freak climbing accident alleviated deep emotional pain

Rock climbing was a haven for Meg Atteberry — until an accident changed everything (Photo courtesy Meg Atteberry)

“All I ever wanted was for [my parents] to cheer me on and say they were proud of me. … But that never happened.”

— Meg Atteberry

Growing up in an emotionally abusive household, Meg Atteberry yearned for her parents’ approval. But no matter how hard she tried, the message was always the same: you are not enough. The emotional scars from her upbringing lingered long into adulthood.

Then one day, Meg took a dangerous fall while rock climbing.

The brush with death resulted in fresh trauma. But in the aftermath of the accident, something surprising started to happen.

On this episode, Meg shares the story of how a freak accident changed her relationship with climbing, and with her parents.

Meg Atteberry is a freelance content writer living in Denver, CO. You can see more of her work, including her outdoor blog, at Fox in the Forest.

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Alex Honnold's Mother

A conversation with Dierdre Wolownick about parenting a world-famous climber

Dierdre WOlownick trains on El Capitan’s Heart Lines (Photo by Karissa Frye)

“The important job of a parent is to know when to let go.”

— Dierdre Wolownick

Dierdre Wolownick is the oldest woman to have climbed El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. She’s also a teacher, a musician, a marathon runner — and the mother of renowned rock climber Alex Honnold.

On this episode, we talk with Dierdre about what it was like raising a kid like Alex.

We discuss her efforts to keep Alex safe as a child, without stifling his love for climbing. We talk about the difference between risk and consequence. And we explore Dierdre’s own journey to becoming a climber, and how learning about her son’s passion changed their relationship.

Dierdre Wolownick’s memoir is called The Sharp End of Life

You can find it here.

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Becoming Better Allies

The road to amplifying BIPOC voices in outdoor stories

The outdoors should be place where anyone can go, without fear of harassment, discrimination, or violence.

“I’m always making risk calculations about whether a trip outside is worth the real danger of being perceived as a threat simply due to the color of my skin.”

— Sean Amegadzie

Black Lives Matter.

The events that have been unfolding over the past few weeks have made it very clear that all of us need to be doing much more to actively fight racism. One of the ways that Out There can help is to use our platform to amplify the voices of Black, Indigenous and People of Color.

The outdoors should be a place where anyone can go, without fearing violence, harassment, or discrimination.

On this episode, we talk about what we, as a podcast, commit to doing, to become part of the solution rather than adding to the problem.

Meet the people who shared Instagram posts on this episode

Sean Amegadzie

Follow Sean on Instagram: @drseanmdmba

Lindsay Short

Follow Lindsay on Instagram: @raisedrootedandwild

Reading & Listening Resources for Allies

The book I mentioned on the show was Me and White Supremacy by Layla Saad.

For additional reading and listening suggestions, check out our blog.

Also, here’s a great Ally Resource Guide.

Birding While Black

Nature is not a safe haven for People of Color

Drew Lanham (photo courtesy Drew Lanham)

“I could see people taking their binoculars down and looking at me. Because here’s this Black guy with this mostly White … class of students, explaining birds to them."

— Drew Lanham

The events that have been unfolding across the United States over the past weeks have driven home once again that simply existing carries risks if you have dark skin.

Many of us like to think that nature is an equalizer — a place to escape the injustices of society. But it’s not so simple.

On this bonus episode, producer Jackie Sojico bring you a story that first aired several years ago. It’s about ornithologist and birder Drew Lanham and his quest to pursue his passion outdoors as a POC.

Special thanks to BirdNote for letting us use audio from the “Rules For the Black Birdwatcher” video. The video was produced by Ari Daniel Shapiro. 

Photo by Suzy Hazelwood

For Further Reading

• “I've Spent My Life Birding While Black. Here's Why I Can't and Won't Forgive Amy Cooper” — by Drew Lanham, published recently in Newsweek

• “Lions and Tigers and Black Folk, Oh My! Why Black People Should Take Up Space in the Outdoors” — by Joshua Walker, published last year by Melanin Base Camp

• “For Our White Friends Desiring To Be Allies” — by Courtney Ariel, published by Sojourners in 2017

You can find additional reading and listening suggestions on our blog, and here’s an excellent Ally Resource Guide.

Vanlife and COVID

What does ‘stay at home’ mean when you don’t have a home?

Public lands and campgrounds across the nation have been closing due to covid, forcing van lifers to switch gears. (Photo by Amber McDanieL)

“This has really made it very clear that society is not built for people that don’t have a single home in a static location.”

— Amber McDaniel

Amber McDaniel lives on the road full-time. She and her partner are both freelance writers, so working remotely isn’t a problem for them. And they love the freedom to spend their days in America’s most beautiful natural places.

But what happens to van lifers when a pandemic hits? Where do you go, when campgrounds and public lands start to close?

On this episode, Amber joins us to talk about “staying home” when you don’t have a home.

Want to hear more from Amber?

Check out her vanlife website, Always the Adventure.

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Beginners

Selected stories from the Out There live show

Storytellers (from left to right): Ashley White, Natasha Buffo, and Jessica Taylor

“A good friend … doesn’t wait for you to tell her what you need; she just knows, and she takes care of it.”

— Natasha Buffo

On this bonus episode, we bring you several tales from Out There’s live storytelling night earlier this month.

Each story touches on the theme of being a beginner in the outdoors:

• Ashley White shares the story of his son’s injury on their first-ever backpacking trip together

• Jessica Taylor explores the lessons she’s learning as she transitions from life in a house to a life on the road

• Natasha Buffo reflects on the intertwined experiences of falling in love with backpacking, and losing a parent

Want to see the full live show?

We recorded it, so you can watch the rerun on demand.

Watch Now

Going It Alone

Is independence a sign of strength?

Bikepacking in Kyushu, japan (PHoto by Melanie Chambers)

“I wanted desperately to prove I still had it — to be entirely independent and self-sufficient, a lone wolf badass living on her bike.”

— Melanie Chambers

Melanie Chambers loved traveling alone. So when she set off on a four-month solo bicycle trip through Japan and Korea, she wasn’t worried.

But almost immediately, loneliness set in.

On this episode, Melanie shares her story. It’s a story of trying to prove yourself, of discovering the limits of your independence, and of making sense of a worldview that prizes self sufficiency.

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BONUS: A Sneak Peak at our Live Show

The storytellers (clockwise from top left): Ashley White, Natasha Buffo, Amy Strieter, Kayla Bordelon, and Jessica Taylor

Join us May 7 for real stories about first times in the outdoors

When Out There turned five earlier this year, we promised to throw a party.

That party is happening tomorrow, in the form of a live storytelling night. The theme for the evening is “beginners,” and five storytellers from across the country will share personal tales of first times in the outdoors.

On this bonus episode, we give you a taste of what you can expect if you join us.

Hope to ‘see’ you there!

WHEN: May 7 at 6 p.m. PST / 9 p.m. EST

WHERE: The Internet

HOW MUCH? Free!

Register Now